9 over 7

**djbkxr** · July 6th, 2005, 10:20 AM

Think I got it

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><pre>
Snare: |RllrrllRl|lrrllRllr|rllRllrrl|lRllrrllR|llrrllRll|rrllRllrr|llRllrrll|
Bass : |x |x |x |x |x |x |x |
</pre></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

the 6th 'bar' really throws my ear.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 06, 2005 07:31 AM: Message edited by: dbx ]</font>

**Michaud** · July 6th, 2005, 01:33 PM

Thanks V-Drummer and DBX for your computer saavy! I'm still in the Fred Flintstone age with all of that :0( Needless to say, I am sure you have helped many to see the notational translation of what I was saying. Thank you!
Regarding the preferred method of mastering this polyrhythm, I would still assign priority to the first approach I described. It is the exact rhythmic equivalent of the second approach and can be played at a much faster tempo. For all practical purposes, the second approach is far slower than most playing situations.
For those still taking the 5:4 /4:3 approach, your sixth note is falling directly on the fifth pulse of the seven. In a true 9 over 7, the sixth note falls slightly PRIOR to the sixth pulse of the seven. BTY--that is why I would call this approach the "low road" to master this polyrythm, whereas the other is the "high road" approach.
I would also recommend playing the seven pulse in the bass drum. Work with a click!
Another tip: the crucial aspect of this is thoroughly internalizing the 3 over 7. Repeat this over and over. Try counting the 3 out loud until you can really "hear" the 3/4 time superimposed over the seven. Then subdivide into triplets. Make frequent transitions between the 3 over 7 and the 9 over 7 in order to anchor things properly.

Have Fun!

Steve Michaud

**Michaud** · July 6th, 2005, 02:03 PM

Terry B. said,

"This is a cool thread! Michaud is the man! The question is, how do you get this across musically, (taste wise) without the bass player punching you? Out of respect for Mr. Michaud, I will be "officially" changing my avatar! Hey, at least we both like Curious George, (great minds think alike!!)

---------------------

Hi Terry B.!

Thanks for your kind gesture in changing your avatar. That was very nice of you! I chose Curious George because he reminds me of my 4-year old son. Curious George is one the very first books I read to him :0)

Regarding your question of getting it across musically, I can think of no situation off the top of my head that "needs" a 9 over 7. It's more a matter of your sense of adventure. Also, if your bass player does not have that same sense of adventure, I cannot guarantee that he will not punch you!
Think of the polyrhytmic landscape as still a highly uncharted frontier. There are so many concepts that still need to be explored. The fact of the matter is this: we need the other people in the band to have the same vision! If they do not, we drummers will likely be viewed as self-indulgent artists who only care about talking to ourselves, musically speaking. Have you ever tried to hold a conversation with someone who was not listening to you, and only seemed concerned with his own ideas? The analogy carries over too painfully into music. Rather than living in our own world alone, we need to bring the other musicians INTO our world--through deliberate "proselytizing" of the polyrhythmic cause (may our tribe increase). I have found that when I have done this, the better musicians will become interested and will want to learn more about these kinds of rhythms. After awhile, they will even begin to look to you for rhythmic ideas as they compose and arrange their compositions. Then you can say, "Hey, a 9 over 7 would be perfect for this!"
When I did my tracks for the David Hines CD, they were done hastily--most were first or second takes. Sometimes he said on the spot--"take a drum solo on this part" (the tune "Neuro Man" happened exactly that way--what a slow tempo--ugh!). But what happened is this: when they heard some of the polyrhythmic materials I was playing, these things got worked into the arrangements of the songs when the rest of the guys put down their tracks. On the "Blown Fuse" recording, I did a long flam phrase in 15 over a 4/4 coming out of the guitar solo on "Mr. Crum." The guys went back and learned where things fell (they initially said, "what in the world was THAT?), and it got incorporated into the fabric of the tune.
A long answer to a short question.
Anyway, thanks for your contribution! Use your new knowledge with a penchant for adventure, but without leaving your fellow comrades in the dust. Educate them if they are willing; do whatever it takes. And above all: ENJOY YOURSELF!

Steve Michaud

cjbdrm · July 6th, 2005, 02:14 PM

What a ridiculous topic! Haha!

I'm still working on my shuffle...

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

400 posts!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 06, 2005 11:16 AM: Message edited by: cjbdrm ]</font>

**Terry B** · July 6th, 2005, 04:23 PM

Wow, that was an excellent reply, Michaud. Thanks so much. That's why this place is the best!! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

**tnsolt** · July 6th, 2005, 05:28 PM

alright since i cant post the file ill write it out.

sounds like :
(5/4) B 2e 3 + 4 a 5
B= both hands
counted:
(4/4) 5 1/4 notes grouped in five over four 1/4 notes
hope this makes sense

**got_a_matchgrip** · July 6th, 2005, 05:50 PM

Yes, that's correct, altho it still looks somewhat vague, prob largely due to limitations of conventional typing in forums...

also [near the bottom of this thread page:]
http://www.hostboard.com/cgi-bin/ult...09&t=5075&p=3#

The quarters are [would fall against the 5 as]:

1st QN - Both the initial note of the 5, awa the 4, are on the 1.
2nd - on the "e" of 2 [of the 5 groupg].
3rd - "&" of 3.
4th - "a" of 4.
...& back to the 1.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 06, 2005 03:09 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>